GrowthNovember 30, 2021

Connected, by mParticle Episode 3: Leveraging emerging platforms with Miguel Navarro

In this episode of the Connected, by mParticle podcast we welcome Miguel Navarro, digital transformation leader and patented inventor.

In this episode, we interview Miguel (Migs) Navarro, Digital Transformation Leader and Patented Inventor. Migs takes us along the journey of how his childhood experiences in the Philippines shaped his love for technology and ultimately led to his passion for digital experiences. We talk through how organizations can spot emerging platforms and leverage them to create meaningful customer outcomes.

Pineapple on Pizza: 2 Yes, 1 No

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Abhi Seeth: [00:00:00] I'm Abhi and you're listening to connected by mParticle or we interview the people that help create some of the most beloved brands in the world. These folks have a unique ability to bring together seemingly unrelated people in technologies to deliver some truly amazing results.

I'm so excited to introduce Miguel Navarro, digital transformation leader and patented inventor. Migs has a proven track record of helping organizations both big and small across a number of industries. Think through develop and build digital experiences that consumers love. Makes takes us along a journey of how his childhood in the Philippine shaped his love for [00:01:00] technology and ultimately led to his passion for digital and CX.

We talked through how organizations can spot and adopt new and emerging platforms to create connected experiences that drive more meaningful customer outcomes. Miguel. Thank you so much for making the time on a Monday afternoon to to talk to me. So I'll ask you, you know, to introduce yourself to the audience and tell us a little bit about yourself, but then, you know, listen, let's, let's just keep talking and see where the conversation.


Miguel Navarro: So my name is Miguel Navarro. And to tell you the truth, I've just been all over the place you know, occupationally, right? Like it's just one of those things, but you know, if we're highlighting achievements, right? Like a brand different platforms for different organizations I definitely try to stay on the mobile slash innovative side of things and plus other emerging platforms that are out there You know, I'm a patent [00:02:00] vendor.

That's something that, you know, I'm absolutely something that I'm very proud of, right. Only because. It's one thing to have an idea, but to actually really follow through and you know, put it out there and be absolutely judged by everyone. Probably your ideas, not good enough and et cetera, et cetera.

Anyway, but it's one of the reasons why I'm proud of it is because I've made plenty of mistakes there. Right. So, yeah, I mean like how they get short you know, guy who runs different digital platforms and better

Abhi Seeth: that's, that's a huge. The patented inventor things. Interesting. I definitely want to get into that, but and we'll, we'll get into mixed cause I always call you megs.

I know your names, Miguel. But mates like on that note, right? So, you know, you've, you've been in digital, you touch customer experience, you touch mobile, you touch some of these other platforms, but taking a step. How did you get into this crazy world of tech and data? Like, take us back to the early days.

I feel like [00:03:00] everyone's got a pretty, pretty interesting story on on, you know, how they, how

Miguel Navarro: they got into this. Yeah. So I'm very, very early days. All right. I got I'm like, without really putting like how David I am, right. Way back in the day. Like, it was really my older brother, right. Who, oh, really?

The eldest sibling that I have seems. He was still in a really got me into programming. Right. And how it all started was you know, really, you know, like I come from a very like humble beginning, like in Philippines. Right. So we definitely have like a ton of other neighbors that even have the Pendo system and hoping to call a family computer.

That's how, like like the. And, you know, you blew through those are judges and I anyway you know, my parents worked really hard, right. But one of the things that typically happens when you're a kid, it's like you see other kids having more things. So my brother Ramon, one of the things that he taught me at a very early age is, oh, she can't buy it.[00:04:00]

Right. So one of the things that we did was I think my dad brought home a computer from his office. You know? Oh, it was like something that's used like a 3 86 computer. It was like, oh, right. Okay. So my brother taught me my first programming language, which is sort of a Pascal. So again, dating myself way, like way back here.

So it wasn't object oriented programming. It was like, I'm talking about like hardcore, like. The old, old style programming. And we made our first game together, right? Like my brother was there helping me guiding me through the whole thing. And that kind of blew my mind. The fact that I can type things into something.

And then all of a sudden, digitally create something right. That now someone is enjoying a, my friends that absolutely blew my mind. And I would say that was when, like the spark, you know, really ignited. So from there, [00:05:00] I essentially like that's what my brother at this point was in college, I was in the sixth.

And I just continued programming, so I'm all the way up to, you know again like different languages, right. We're talking like turbo Pascal. We went to, you know, like visual basic. We went through like all of these, like different for trans, like all of these like different languages and one of the things that ended up happening.

I got fairly good at it that, you know, I was breezing through any computer classes and it had an brown, red school and high school. It was a matter of fact, they even have like a student teacher kind of like switch a roo program. I'm always picked as the computer teacher. Right. Because it's just one of those things where, you know, I did Excel at it.

Anyway, long story short one of the, with that as my beginning it really taught me a lot of things. Right. Which is what. It didn't really matter what the language was a goal, right? As long as she knew what you were like, where you wanted to go you know, [00:06:00] it's possible right though in life.

Like that's kinda how I looked through everything as well. Is that. You know, as long as I knew where I would need it to go. Now, it's just a matter of figuring out what percent impacts is figuring out how to create a method. How do I keep calling that method so that I kind of became ingrained in me and the way that I kind of looked at it was, I just needed to always, you know, I didn't have to be the bats.

I just needed to be good, you know? And so I definitely tried out so many different programming languages and one of the things that ended up happening. Steve jobs in 2007 and now, Hey, like, you know, we're going through allow third party developers and that's when, you know, I taught it, dropped everything right.

I dropped everything. Wow. I think most of my friends have not heard from me right. From like 2007 to like maybe like 2012. I just disappeared. Like, because I needed to be really good in mobile. And yeah, like, so from there you know, [00:07:00] built my first app. Right. And one of the, like the things that ended up happening from there was you know, I started really understanding, not the app creation process and this is where things start becoming interesting.

Cause I feel like this is where it pivoted for me was that it's not about building the app anymore. It's about monitoring. No, when the switch happened you know, of being able to not only cry, but then looking at the monetization of, you know, again like that one app where it's a giant red button and just keep pressing it.

I remember that. Yeah. First app that you know, like one of the first few apps that ever came out to like now, I mean, we're talking about an Amazon app where in, or a banking application or shopping application, right. When, like, with Macy's brick and mortar turning digital, those are like the type of things that now, if you look at the drastic change from 2007 to today yeah, that's the reason why I can continue doing [00:08:00] all these digital stuff.

Right. So, anyway, I know I kind of stretched out like going from oh, where where I came from to where I wanted to go. It's just

Abhi Seeth: yeah, no, no, no. I think so much of what's what's interesting is like what, you know, for some people it's maybe a slow and gradual, like, ah, like I saw. This opportunity that wasn't available before is right.

But that's so interesting that for you, it really started in your childhood days and it was at like passion for right. Like building, building programs and seeing that you could put stuff in a keyboard.

Miguel Navarro: Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, to me, it was kind of like the fun factor of it because building it right to me when I was building anything right.

Programmatically, I always looked at it as a, almost like a big day. Right. Hey, there is a problem to be solved and it's just a puzzle and you know, you do trial and error and don't oh, you get the outcome that you want.

Abhi Seeth: So like, that's, that's one [00:09:00] part. Right. But then the fact that, like now we're thinking about 2007.

What about like the iPhone coming out or, or mobile made you drop everything and go all in.

Miguel Navarro: Oh, absolutely. So that's a very good question. That'd be one on like the things that I kind of like, look that right. Is if you, so way back in the Philippines, the way that we used to do phone calls before was that we did not have a phone at home, even though like in, when I grew up eventually, like most people didn't have phones when I was growing up, we had a phone like in our home, but most people in Philippines it's like with.

I had a sport that someone it's not like a major store, it's like a store that is built around someone pals have it. They would go up there and pay someone like a quarter or anything like that to people use their phone. And then it went from. Everyone had like phones in their homes. Right. And then the cell, the world of cell phone happened where all of a sudden some people had cell phones, not all right.

And then [00:10:00] everyone started having cell phones. I'm calling out to the Nokia brand where this is like, you know, the most popular cell phone ever. And the only game that ever existed. Right. So I don't want it from like a, that point where I knew everyone had a cell phone and the only game was snake I've been held popular.

Snake was at least like for me in the grammar school and high school, it was just like the super popular game. And then going and understanding why pilot . And you know, because of like the the missing infrastructure of free wifi for all the speed of internet speed of like the bandwidth that we're getting as far as cellular coverage, it's just not the same today from when like pocket P fees and PalmPilots were there.

So, you know, it was, it's almost like, imagine if you had a phone that is not connected to be internet, that's useless, you know? Sure. Yeah. But awesome camera, but you know, it's useless. That's what, I mean, those like, [00:11:00] I saw like 2007 iPhone, the rise of internet and you know, everything else. It's just kind of like, you're looking almost for a catalyst that typically happens in most major companies.

Right? There's always a catalyst like Coca-Cola has world war one. You know, and that's like and blockbuster, they had the internet, right. The internet with a kind of like changed things. So when that happened, I definitely looked at smartphones that way as well. I'm sure how to look smells feels like a pocket PC, but there's juice there, right.

Because there's internet and now it's connected to everything. And then from there, the way I'm looking at it as, wait a second, you're pairing this thing around all the time. Right. We're in a BCU, we'll leave at home a laptop. You'd have to boot up, even if you're like an abandoned, who would up a laptop in the frame?

Yeah. This is like, I, like, I personally wouldn't do that. That's just, to me, it's like, it's a bullet, but being able to fill out the phone. [00:12:00] Right. And and I think at that point I was, I owned the iPhone for about like a few months when, yeah, when they announced third-party developers, I absolutely compared it to of like in the nineties.

Right. And I, I knew that that would be the DOP of our, the time and definitely wanted them on the clients on it.

Abhi Seeth: That's hindsight's 2020, right. Like, I think it's easy for me to read like all the HBR articles and be like, oh yeah, I totally know what you're talking about. But, you know, I think for our listeners, right.

To be at that point in time to kind of. See the potential in this. And then of course, right. And we'll, we'll get into this, but looking at how pivotal, like, I mean, I don't think there's too many business to consumer brands today that at some point very early in their growth don't seriously consider having a digital presence, but then as part of that, having a significant mobile presence and then Okay.

So then maybe I guess, pivoting over because you know, I, I don't want to, I think everyone [00:13:00] understands and gets the power of mobile, right? Like everyone's developing a mobile app. Everyone's thinking about monetization, but sort of like trying to recreate the 2007 of 2021, because I know you're not just a mobile guy.

One of the things I wanted to talk to you about are voice platforms. To me, they're still very tactical. Like, Hey, Alexa, you know, tell me what what time it is or set my alarm. I still feel like the voice and voice has a touch point as an engagement point is still relatively nascent. At least for a lot of brands and a lot of a lot of organizations.

Can you talk a little bit more about that? What you see the potential of that platform is and you know, how are, how are you seeing organizations leverage it? And what generally, what role do you see voice playing in an organization's customer engagement stream?

Miguel Navarro: Absolutely. So the way that I kinda look at yeah, and again, you're spot on Abby, I [00:14:00] do believe that in the voice world, right.

But to say that, because I don't want it to encapsulate it in a device because there's so many different methods that you can utilize your voice into creating activation or you know, like kind of like eating that like digital experience. But the way that I'm kind of looking at it right now is it's almost, you know, I do feel that most companies are reactive and I'll use the analogy of planning.

Right. So imagine you have like your digital platforms or potted plants and how companies typically react to it is the more people look at that plan. The more water that plant. Yeah. Right. So the way that I look at the voice platform today is the. It's the team plan as mobile and, you know, at least for right now, because I'm probably not educated well enough to understand the difference between I don't know, like the thing that comes to mind is like hemp and cannabis, right?

Like, so there's like definitely like a difference there, [00:15:00] but, you know they both have. So the one piece that I would say is to me in my uneducated eyes today, like they both look the same, that it's just that mobile. That's a lot of eyes. Right. So what ends up happening is the planner waters AK the company, right?

Because they're all reactive. They look at the data. Oh, we got, we have a lot of these mobile users, so we're going to continue keeping mobile until the users end up looking. Right now, I don't expect that there's going to be this raise the shift, right. That happens between. You know, mobile or voice, or, you know, maybe I'm wrong, maybe that's another part of the client, but I'm not looking at it.

Right. Like, so the idea here is that I do believe that voice you know, the ads of today, I think it's a great accompaniment for mobile mobile. Like you, Hey everywhere. Right? It's kind of like the definition of mobile. Like it's just like, you know, it's the take it everywhere with you. But [00:16:00] I do believe that eventually voice will be everywhere because if you think about the, you know, Alexa systems today, Google home, et cetera, those are the red button games.

And I like that initial piece of it. Like we haven't thought absolutely our to create immediate monetization. Cause right now we're trying to make these devices look and feel like the pocket PC and mobile devices that we have today though. It's shifting now. Cause now like you have the hero. Right.

Which now, like, you'll start seeing if you have AirPods, you know theories starting to dictate things to you, and it's waiting for you to reply back. If you have a Microsoft outlook, one of the things that it'll tell you is, oh, it'll give you a recap of your emails while identifying how many emails do you have and how long that we have would probably be.

Yeah. So those are kind of like the pieces where right now it's a good [00:17:00] attachment right. To the mobile device. But then I do believe that eventually, you know, your chips and you know, like space and all of that become a little bit more. Different from where we are today. I do believe that my, you know, like eventually my enlights, which is my door knobs, even though now we have digital door knobs, but it's only able to accept commands that we do today.

Not the feature, not the feature stuff yet, but that's stuff that we can do. They would just switch on, switch off. And when your. And I do believe that right now, especially a lot of the companies are being conservative. Biggest things do understand that, you know, it's not just them that have to adapt.

They have to figure out the trajectory of the engagement and usage right. Of their customers, to be able to determine that at the end, if it is something way too different, right? Like, so if today you started introducing, reducing flying cars. Like I think answer your, there's probably not going to be a lot of people buying that.

Right. But if you started [00:18:00] off with a car. That is self-driving right. And then eventually it goes to, oh, there's like a, that barely touches the ground. Right. Where it's just a floating car. We'll never leave the ground, but it's not touching the ground. And then eventually scaled that up to, oh, it's flying.

It's easier to chew and manage versus going from a car or going from a bicycle to when applying car. Right. Like, so. I do believe that there's that piece when it comes to a couple more adopted in technology, but that's the reason why that's plant, there's a boy plant, right? It's not as big as mobile right now, but I do believe that it definitely has the characteristics of it being as, or maybe bigger than mobile, because I get the one thing, the one device, right.

That you will have to take with you and you will never have to charge or anything like that really is your voice. And if you think about how many times in your life use your voice to [00:19:00] get what you want, like, whether you want to order a cup of coffee of the drive through you're looking for your remote or asking your significant other, you know, Hey, like where's the remote, like use it all the time to eight demands and with expect that outcome.

And I do believe that that is going to be the theft. It's just a matter of. You know, really having more and more companies invest in it or it to be, you know, bigger. But I mean, I'm telling you right now, like with we're definitely getting a lot closer there, right. Just if you look at our play of, yeah, yeah.

Just like what I mentioned at, beyond the AirPods and just like where things are going, it's definitely becoming a bit different.

Abhi Seeth: It's so interesting that you say that, right? Because to your point about, you know, going from a bicycle to a plane, it's not just you, the inventor and this analogy, maybe that's a, a single company that wants to leverage voice it's.

But sort of takes that whole ecosystem, collectively being built, there has to be more platforms, easier access, more upskilling and [00:20:00] training, right? I mean, we're probably gonna see like whole programming languages dedicated in, you know, whatever the predominant voice languages, the planet algae makes a lot of sense.

Right. Because now we're just like, it's like, Hey, there's nothing really about sort of the plant or the voice that makes. Potentially any less upside or, you know any less likely to be adopted as widely in, in society as, as mobile is. And in fact, for some of the reasons you provided voice probably has the advantage in that, you know, it's sort of part of you, right?

There is no, there's no physical device that you can leave behind.

Miguel Navarro: You want peace, but, you know, I would add there, right? And just the talking about potted plant and all of, then the reason why I use that analogy is because that's how systems were built before. Right? Like, I mean, like we're talking about silos here is the kind of like the potted plant, right?

Really like as organizations and companies have to realize that all your plants really should be connected. Right. Right. And what you should be doing is eliminating those [00:21:00] plants, but rather instead of watering a pot, you should be watering your yourself. Right. And that's kinda like that. And you need to fertilize it.

You need to take care of your soil down to the point, right. That any, any time you put in an additional plant or platform, it will grow it's your soil is solid. And I'm talking about like connected beta, right? Like imagine you know, like think about it, like in the work, in the work space or worth world, right.

Where you have a brand new employee. And your boss gives that brand new employee, a task that, you know, you, a veteran can already do today, gets the brand new employee, doesn't know like , etc. All the knowledge, all those folks, all the people that you talked to, you have coffee with, you have lunch with you have dinner with like, as built the mill.

Any of that, that person will have to work about three, five times as hard and be able to get the same result that you would now imagine the world [00:22:00] where whatever it is that you know, You know, it's a veteran that's immediately transferred. Like I'm not thinking real time. I'm not talking like in base in month, in real time, but your knowledge and your existence gets transferred.

That brand new employee imagine like having a platform where they can inherit all the data that the desktop platform it's already created. Imagine the voice platform, right. That it's completely brand new, not really used by people. Right. But when people shift to voice, it doesn't feel so natural. Not because we reduce myself again, but because all the data that you had, one, you didn't spend a lot of money for it because you've been planning and making sure your soil is healthy versus, oh, I'm looking at one potted plant and making sure that that one pot plant looks great, but rather looking at the bigger picture of, you know, what, let's make sure that we take care of the soil.

So anytime you plant. It just grows just as big as everything [00:23:00] else.

Abhi Seeth: No. And listen, that, that segues really nicely into, into another topic there makes, because you're right. Like at the end of the day, it's not about forcing voice or for that matter, like any new platform into a customer engagement strategy.

It's like what organically makes the most sense? I mean, You know, there's going to be things that are just inherently easier to do on a laptop. Right. And we should engage our customers on that, right. On that touch point on a laptop, because it makes the

Miguel Navarro: most, the customer's choice. Right. If each, each using the laptop or a light switch, let's make it work.

Right. I mean, like, that's kind of like the PVC, or is that the base where a customer asked to go to the business? It's slowly. Right. Like now customers expect you to come to them, not in the form of ads, you know? Cause that's a totally different topic, but you know, being there when you deed the, like you want your [00:24:00] company to be that very good brand that you don't have, you don't need to be seen crying for that person to go in and ask you, Hey, is everything okay?

No man, like that person, like Texas, you like before you, before you even start feeling down this person practice you, Hey man. Like, you know, it's been a long week. I think you really need to drink, you know, or just making sure that you're okay and you know, proactively not reactively. Like, and those types of, you know, if you think about it, right.

How do you know as a. That's your friend is celebrating, Hey, maybe they actually, every day. And then they haven't texted you in two days, you know, like, what are your data points as a friend, right? It's that? It's oh, like this kid typically jokes around for some reason when I said, Hey, just said, Hey, like, sorry, can't really talk for you.

And, you know, you've got so many different points of indicators. I'm not trying to be creepy as a company. Right. Do you want to look at those points of indicator? Just the same. It's like a sword, right? It could be ducted. It could be used for good or evil. [00:25:00] Know, so the thing that I you know, do try to push folks and companies to do is do right by their customers by using their data, not to just collect it and hoard it right.

And not use it, but make sure that you're, you, you know, that you're thinking about your data and textually down to the point of customer experience, you know, because it's not about collecting as much data as I can. So let them sell you something it's collecting as much data I can't do. I know I can be there for you when you need.

Abhi Seeth: Right with the right context and information and things that I'm genuinely helpful.

Miguel Navarro: Absolutely. Because if you're a company and you're thinking, oh, you know, I'm not going to, you know invest in avocados. Right. Because I personally, I just believe avocados is out of season and. But if that's your data point that people are ordering avocados or anything like, or any drink or food that in bolts, avocado, [00:26:00] you would know exactly that, Hey, I need more of a counter space because I need to feed my friends.

Right. So that's kind of like the piece, but you know, the way it kind of look at data is that one I'll fast. Can you ingest it? Right? Like, so it's almost like when I add that new planet, Is it like, is there an onboarding process because you've helped me. Yeah. It's like data or like four, we're going to have to like cite them data.

It's just like, okay, what's that going to take? Like three months, six months, by that time, people are no longer using it. Right. It's just like, they like two times and then no longer going back to it. So what's the point right though, to me, if you're gonna run a test and learn environment, I think that, you know, you got to give them the right tools, right.

To properly be a true test and learn because if the data is incomplete, but you're feeding your platform and then, you know, bringing down the mallet and say, okay, I'm judging this platform that it's not working because you gave it a [00:27:00] absolutely unfair advantage. You know, then that's on you. You know, and that's the reason why I do love CDPs.

I love them particle. Right. It's the fact that, you know, again, like it's one of those systems that and I got my work in like so many different places, right. And this is like very, very shameless plug for it and particle, so shame on you, you guys. But you know, one of the things that, you know, I definitely do love about it is the right.

A real. We're not talking like real time, give it to the customer and then, oh, you know, it's up to you to figure it out, right? Like it's absolute real time. I plugged it in my platform. And, you know, within seconds that platform gets and be able to use that data that existed before from other platforms, you use it to be able to feed that platform.

So the same thing, it's like the plant analogy that I have, you know, that plant floor is just, just like the, you know, the same thing as the employee conversation. Like, like they one they're. So onboarding [00:28:00] process, like they won this guy is free to grind work like.

Abhi Seeth: Well, no, I mean, Migs, there is so much goodness here, and honestly, I'm putting a bookmark in this.

You're probably going to have to be invited on for part two and part three. Like there's a lot just in, in what you said over the last five minutes that that deserve their own domain, their own episode. And this is what segues into another question I've been dying to ask you. Which is, you know, I think we're both in agreement here, but, but so much of your ability to serve your customers as an organization in today's world is your ability to connect data and data and technology in these ways that you're really listening to your customer.

And you're able to engage them when and where they want to be engaged. But I want to double click into that. You've worked across a number of different industries you know, in organizations of all sizes, but I'll ask you this maybe a little more specifically for financial services or maybe [00:29:00] more generally organizations that have traditionally come from like a strong brick and mortar presence.

Right? What are some of the maybe opportunities and challenges that you would highlight in caution? As these organizations are taking this journey from, you know, brick and mortar going into digital

Miguel Navarro: yeah, absolutely. I be, I think this is a very important question and thanks for that. A lot of people think, oh, like especially for a guy like me it was like very digital, you know a lot of people think, oh, a person who's like digital would only stay within digital or anything like that.

But not like, I, I absolutely believe in the brick and mortar model. It's just that it's going to need to adopt, you know, the thing is, is like, there's a reason why there's apple stores open. Right. And there's a reason why of all the sudden Amazon is investing in more and more brick and mortar places and, you know, third growth.

Right. It's certainly the opposite, right? You're coming from like the same angle, just being lit on both ends. It's a [00:30:00] very digital place. That's now understanding the brick and mortar model that they're understanding the homogeny of physical. You know, we're in a lot of brick and mortar places are chasing the shiny object of digital, right?

So they're like, ah, not a smoothie you know, bring them more models and all of that. And nothing like, I honestly believe in Buffalo, you know, I believe that there are certain services and functions that have a brick and mortar place like we're talking about financial services. I mean like safety deposit.

I mean, you know, like there's probably not a lot of people that do safety deposit box, but just like the laptop analogy that we did earlier is it's like there are some people that want to use the laptop. If the customers, right, that say, Hey, I want to be able to use a safety deposit box and you have to like go back to them and tell them, Hey, like, based off my Excel sheet, it doesn't really make sense.

Do you think they will understand that? They'll be happy to know that because at the end of the day, they didn't get what they wanted, but she was a safety deposit [00:31:00] box for. That's honestly, eight one product, right. That will exist in a brick and mortar place. And, you know, there's something that they will feel accessible because it's someone close to them because you would imagine someone rent a brick and mortar or a storage.

That's the things with storage facility. You know, someone would rent one that's close to them. So it'd be, and this sounded like the piece that the way I'm looking at it is that. People can't compare that apples to apples, which most companies do. And that's why this is kind of like a nice little warning for people, right?

It's that you don't, you don't have to write shoes. You don't have to left shoes. You have a right and left shoe, right? Like one side of you as dominant, but it doesn't mean that you don't meet. You know, so that's how I would look at digital and brick and mortar, depending on your industry and your business.

Sometimes you're in brick and mortar is the dominant one and the digital is supporting right now. That is what works for your [00:32:00] business for the time being good, because things change, right. And you need to be able to adopt those changes with faculty. Right. But when you don't right. When you decide to cut off that one leg, which again, like a lot of people use this story that like cautionary tale of blockbuster, where they already have like the digital model and decided to cut that leg off, you know, I mean, the only thing that's left, that's sprayed at.

Right. So that's essentially what happened is the view not, not listened to, you know, again, like where like the customers are, et cetera. And just the side, like, you know, this is where you want to port to the customer in computers back in the day, back in the day when there was only like one brand of PC being sold, one type of printer, there's only one major operating system running.

Yeah, sure. I didn't have a choice cause they would have to pick you. But thanks for all this, of all of like companies that startups coming, you know, like from like left field every day. And they come up with these innovative items and [00:33:00] these products and services to that, you know, a lot of these major companies that are huge, right.

That it takes them time to pivot these startups are the ones that moved quick and get to the customer's need immediate. Right. And so for bigger companies, that's looking at brick and mortar or digital, you should really look at and you know, like you should look more into, okay. How do I use my brick and mortar Mike?

All my full potential way.

Abhi Seeth: I love, like, I think the point that you made there is so app, right. And yeah, I mean, you know, the tactics of how you do this are going to vary by industry and where you are as a, as an individual company, but it's sort of, it doesn't matter where you started. It's like, you still got to ask the same questions, which are like how the needs of my customer changed and like, what do I need to layer on to the assets I have to meet?

That the best it could be. And it doesn't matter if you start in digital into your point, you're [00:34:00] opening up, you know, a bunch of grocery stores or in Amazon's case acquiring a bunch of groceries. So it's like, that's still connected to their digital

Miguel Navarro: experience. So, and that's what the most important thing is to be connected.

Right. Experience part of it. Right? Because the thing is that if I go to a brick and mortar store and I've already been in digital app experience that, oh, this thing, the suggestions, everything is like flowing the correct way. And then I go to a store. And just like what I said, we don't have customers today that are patient understanding.

No, like our customers are finicky and they're not happy with one thing. They have a choice. That's the other big part is like, they have like a world of choices. So the one piece that, you know, I do telephone that you gotta make sure that. Whatever platform or channel that you're creating that it is as good as the as its predecessor or the one before or the one with it.

Right. I don't want to say before, because it's not like, oh, because we are in mobile today, the desktop is dead. Not, you know, there's so many different applications [00:35:00] within desktop day that it's still like tip of the iceberg, that people haven't really added. That maybe that's another episode that we can go to.

But again, through connected experiences, those things change.

Abhi Seeth: Right. I mean, this, this takes a real evaluation and a real it's a two way street, right? You put stuff out there as a business, but you also got to listen to how your consumers reacted. Staying on the theme of connectivity. For one more question, we've talked a lot about data and technology, but can you speak to the value of working with people, partners, teams outside of like your core function to drive better outcomes?

Miguel Navarro: Oh, absolutely. So the one piece that I always think in my head is that I don't know everything. Right. I'm sure I've had like a lot of experiences, but the past doesn't really quite dictate what the feature is. You know, and so those are two completely different entities and the way that I kind of look at it, it's the same thing with dealing with either something innovative or something BAU.

Right. I definitely look at my [00:36:00] peers as you know, folks who know what they're doing. I definitely give them that respect. And just like what I mentioned earlier, I definitely walk into a room believing that I don't know everything. You know, so I make sure that even, you know, like my opinions, right.

When someone's said something, you know let's say a statement of, oh, I don't like digital, you know, I don't barge in there and start shooting from my hip and then start spending digital. Right. No, I take a breather, right. I take a pause and ask, you know, the question and make sure that I hear this person out.

Why. Because those are the reason why that person does not like digital it's because of something I don't know who is a person who loves digital, you know? So I definitely look at it that way. So anytime there's any ideas that come across a product that I do, and it may be something that I don't understand.

I'm not quick to say no to it. Whether I'm the decision maker or not. Right. It's one of those things that I do [00:37:00] feel it's extremely important to one respect. Your partners and peers, no matter what level they are because you know, again, At some point, right? Like I was, you know, like again, like my, my first job Ivy is like constructing spiral notebooks in Philippines where I got paid.

Like maybe like less than a penny. Right. For stacking up a pile of books about like 30 centimeters or like what, like what So, again, like to me, the way I'm looking at it, it's like everyone comes from like different backgrounds. So you always want to make sure that you treat your partners. Right.

But also to tell you the truth, none of my accomplishments would have ha nothing. Right? I'm nothing. Without my partners, my partners are the ones that are able to pull strings on their end to make stuff happen the way I'm looking at it as I'm just that guy who's like great at. Right. And it's just like able to like tell people like, Hey, like I think we should do this.

Hey, can you do the tape or are you better at that? And then, you know, try to like understand the [00:38:00] strength and improvement that the team or my partners do or can do and, you know, utilize it, you know? So yeah, the way I'm like looking at it, I'm just a guy that's really good in equations. Right. But, you know, the numbers, the decimal figures and everything out, that's the only partners like I'm, I'm not, you know, I'm just, you know, that guy puts everything to.

Abhi Seeth: Right, right. Yeah. Like we always, you know, in the world I work in and the EcoSys media, like, it's so easy to talk about, oh, here's this machine learning model and here's this and here's this. And here's all the things that this one company did that I read an article about. But so much of what I see is the real progress.

It's not that the technology isn't there. Right? It's not that theoretically you could put this stuff together. I think the folks that do it best sort of have that ability, I think to [00:39:00] know what they're good at, know what they're not, and then bring the right people in the room together.

Miguel Navarro: You know what I'll be like.

I really love the fact that you're hammering on my people. Right. So one of the things that is important to me, right. When it comes to. And this is definitely my criteria when I'm judging partners or, you know third party platform that I want to partner with or anything like that. I'd definitely look at the people I like.

I look at how the CEO treats their people. I want to see like how the managers treat their people. One of the things I typically do is I sit in maybe like, you know, a couple of times, like in the office they I'm going to work there and all of that and title IX snip out the environment. I weather. And I'm not talking about like short term, full rods, like over budding to stay tacos or like something like, I'm not talking about that.

I'm talking about, you know, boats in there and how they speak to each other, how they support each other. Like, and more importantly, when people make mistakes, right. Because it's very easy to [00:40:00] behave. Very easy to be a nice person when the only expectations for you to be a nice person, because everyone's having a good day, we're celebrating right now.

It's a party. There's something to be sad about. I'm talking about, or it's the laughing after like they find out they have like massive losses, right? Because now they're like, you know, their leader is standing there and think, Hey, you know, it's like, it happens to the best of us. And I know that everyone's still worked hard and not out there yelling or bursting out through.

All right. So to me it's one of like the technology and whatever of, if you're a company right now listening, and you're looking for a, you know, like again, like a company to partner with focused a bunch of new product, right? Like whether like, oh, they have like the best AI model, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Okay. I'm about like for period of time in your lifetime, then that will be overtaken by like someone. You know, like again, like if you're basing it off of a product, making one product right now that you are still using today after like eight years. Right? I mean, Mike [00:41:00] PVS changed after like three or four years, like phone that's changed in like, so it's like not one of your basing of apple product.

Eventually that's going to disappear abated on people. We get the people, right. That run that. It's actually what changes the product? That's what improves the product. Those are the people listening to our customers need that Federer. So if you, your partners, right? The people that you partner with don't internalize like what you believe in morally, right.

Or like the ideas that you have might not be a good fit for it. But I got like. All my partners all the folks that, you know, again, like all the third party platforms that I hang out with and, you know, obviously that's them are bears. You know, one of the things I looked at or the people, like I absolutely judged them at their worst.

And if they look the best at their words, I mean, Hey, that's a partner for me.

Abhi Seeth: Wow. That is a. Yeah. A lot of people don't think about it that way. That is. So that is so key and you're right. I don't think there's anything I own that, you know is the [00:42:00] best anymore, 10 years after the fact, or even five years after the fact.

Thank you. I know we're, you know, we're way over the time. You know, I said w we had for the steak, but if you will, I had two more sort of fun. I got to ask you as a person, right? Not as a professional question. W what is your favorite brand or experience in Y

Miguel Navarro: my favorite brand and experience?

Wow. Like, I'm definitely taking a deep, thinner, so. Honestly for me, I'm I'm a huge fantasy football guy. So to me, I always like any, you know, any app that kind of deals with fantasy football or any like DFS system, but to me, and I don't know what it is like, I really do enjoy like the Yahoo fantasy app, you know?

You know, and again, like we're talking Yahoo, right. But the one piece that, you know, I would say, wow, You know, I [00:43:00] do enjoy it. It's because after using it, it makes me feel just as smart as, you know, the almond payers and like football, et cetera, because like the V the way, the way that they educate that our customers, which is, you know, primarily the folks like me you know, to feel empowered right.

With the correct information. Making us believe that we're experts in the game and the whole information download thing, and then she'll make videos and all that. I just thought it was a pretty, I think it's a pretty awesome customer. All

Abhi Seeth: right. So I, it makes, I'm not going to keep you too long.

The next I'm going to ask you. So I got five questions for you. They're all rapid fire. So they should be relatively, should be either or for the most part. So, all right, I'm just going to dive into it. So I got to know pineapple on pizza.

Miguel Navarro: Oh my God. Yeah. So let me tell you something like [00:44:00] Shakey's in Philippines has it's called I think Hawaiian special or Hawaiian delight.

I forget what it is, but it's a pineapple on pizza.

Abhi Seeth: Okay. All right. So that's a resounding. This is good. So I'll tell you right now. And I don't know if we'll, we'll keep this in the episode. We're two in one. So two yeses and one, no, on this question. So yeah, we are pineapple seems to be winning right now.

Okay. Winter or summer sports.

Miguel Navarro: Hmm. So I would say, see, like, it depends if I'm playing in it summer, if I'm watching it.

Abhi Seeth: Okay. All right. All right. LeBron

Miguel Navarro: or MJ. Oh, MJ. All the way, man. Like, again, like to me, I get my, I grew up in a watching basketball in the nineties. The game has changed, you know, like the game today has changed and it's become a lot more statistical you know, where in, before.[00:45:00]

The game was the game, you know, like I'm talking about, you know, and again, I'm a, I'm a Seattle supersonic span. Like, I mean, I loved Shawn camp, right? Like, so again, I'm talking, you know, like back in the bay when slam dunk contest, where like thing, you know, and I don't know, maybe I'm like a little bit more disconnected now, but back in the day, like slam dunk contest, I mean, you were talking about Dominic rule conflict.

One headed with me, like, you know, slamming that in and Michael Jordan jumping from like the free throw line, like dunking, I mean, come on. So to me it's just a different KPI. That's how I look at it.

Abhi Seeth: Fair enough. Fair enough. That's no shots at LeBron. He's a great player. I think we all agree, but

Miguel Navarro: yeah,

Abhi Seeth: different KPI.

I got ya, MJ all the way, so, all right. We got two more here. Fro-yo frozen yogurt or.

Miguel Navarro: Ooh. So I wouldn't say frozen [00:46:00] yogurt, right? Like, and the reason why is because, I mean, I'm just playing kind of patched to it because that's kind of like out my wife and I built our relationship, so it's

Abhi Seeth: okay. Well, listen, we're going to start, you know, when we have your back, that's going to be the start of of part two is, is how you and your wife met over fruit's easy choice then you know, no Foltz there. And then mix, I gotta ask you because I'm a huge foodie and you know, for atheists here, I'd probably put that as my top skill on my resume.

But favorite restaurant in New Jersey or new.

Miguel Navarro: Whoa, wait for it in the restaurant, in New Jersey and New York. So again, I'm going to be a little bit biased, right? Because my first move from the Philippines to the us was during confetti. So to me, Theresa steady is always, you know, like home to me as far as, you know, like the U S goes there's this one restaurant that's on Harbor side financial center and it's [00:47:00] all orderly.

So one of the things that they had on the menu a long time ago, but they still make for me, even though it's no longer on the menu, is that wild mushroom risotto. Now I want you to go there, try that out and tell me that's not the best. Well, if you've ever had,

Abhi Seeth: okay, everyone listening, you heard it here first, right?

We got a secret. We got a secret menu item. Portola girl. That's not too far away from me. All right, mate. Listen, it's a date. All right. We got meet up. We gotta get the the mushroom risotto there. Man, I think that's a wrap. This was, this was awesome. Geez, my head's still spinning. I want to ask you a 50, 50 other questions, but I think for the sake of, I think that we gave the audience enough for you know, for this episode.

Miguel Navarro: Well, you know, I'll take you off on the next episode, man, to me, listen, this is my excuse of hanging out with the, a B come on, man. Like, I'll take it any day.

Abhi Seeth: You're too kind MIGS. You're [00:48:00] awesome. In more ways than, than you'll know. And for sure. Thank you. Thank you so much for for being a

Miguel Navarro: guest on the pod.

Abhi Seeth: Thanks so much for listening to this conversation from connected by mParticle. For more on this episode, you can check out the show notes and transcript on our blog. You can also subscribe to the podcast on any major podcast player. If building great customer experiences is important. Sign up for our monthly newsletter and pulse, which includes a very short list of the best blog articles he's cases and industry reads from throughout the month.

Thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you next time.

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